Pop Culture

Judy Blume: The Author, the Legend… The MOVIE!

By on May 25, 2023   /   Articles, Pop Culture  
Judy Blume, author

Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret was the first book I bought with my own money. Later, Judy signed it for me at a meet-and-greet at Eeyore’s, the iconic and sadly, now defunct children’s bookstore on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.

“To Melissa,” she inscribed. “Love, Judy Blume.” Yes, Judy had written “Love” in my book. This was more valuable than my collection of Bonne Bell Lip Smackers and Wacky Packages combined.

Margaret: The OG

I read Margaret obsessively, for months. Soon, my once-pristine paperback felt apart (above, left) and I retired it to my bookshelf, only to be brought out for special occasions, like birthdays, or to impress my friends. I purchased a new Margaret (this time, my mom paid for it), and when that copy fell apart, I bought another. And another. And then another…

I Must… I Must… I Must Increase My…

As a voracious reader with an underdeveloped body and an overactive imagination, Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret—which was published in 1970, when books weren’t banned for using words like “menstruation,” “masturbation,” and “wet dreams”—had an enormous impact on me. I could relate to Margaret’s yearning for breasts, and for her period, and for her desire to impress the girls in Nancy Wheeler’s secret club, the Four PTS’s. And who could begrudge Margaret’s crush on Philip Leroy? Sure, Jay Hassler was nicer, and he had clean fingernails, but Philip Leroy was hot.

Margaret Simon, Movie Star

With that in mind, you can imagine my reluctance to see the movie version of Margaret. I knew it couldn’t possibly be as good as the book, but I was too curious not to go. Plus, my 23-year-old daughter, an avid Margaret fan too, gamely agreed to go with me. So, off we went.

I was grateful to see how closely the movie hewed to the book, especially its 1970s setting, updated and enhanced by a more inclusive and diverse cast. Abby Ryder Fortson, the 15-year-old star, brings Margaret to life, with a perfect combination of moxie and self-reflection, and Kathy Bates, whose incomparable comic timing makes Margaret’s grandma, Sylvia Simon, sparkle like a Swarovski crystal, gives a standout performance as well. Other notables include Elle Graham as alpha girl Nancy Wheeler; Isol Young, as the misunderstood Laura Danker; and Amari Alexis Price as Margaret’s effervescent pal, Janie.

But the best part of the movie…?

The cameo of Judy Blume walking her dog, along with real-life husband, George Cooper. I could have watched that all day. 😀 (For more on Melissa’s admiration for Judy Blume, check Are You There Judy? It’s Me Melissa.)

Kidlit Authors ❤️ Judy Blume

I asked MUF contributors and other children’s authors—including bestselling author and illustrator Debbie Ridpath Ohi, who illustrated the fabulous Simon & Schuster Judy Blume book-cover reissues (see above, and below)—to share their admiration for the Queen of Kidlit.  Here’s what they had to say…

Debbie Ridpath Ohi

“While I was growing up, reading Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret helped me realize that I wasn’t the only one thinking these crazy thoughts, and that everything was going to be okay.”

–Debbie Ridpath Ohi, illustrator of the Simon & Schuster Judy Blume book-cover reissues and award-winning author and illustrator. Learn more about Debbie on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

(For more on Debbie’s experience illustrating the Judy Blume cover reissues, click here.)

Beth McMullen

“I saw the movie with a group of friends, and we agreed it felt like a surreal trippy visit to the 1970s that felt faithful to the book. I had completely forgotten about the religious exploration part of the book, which reminded me how much that resonated with my young self. I grew up in a very small, very Christian town and I was a weirdo transplant from New York City who was raised in a non-religious household.

Looking back now, I release how strange it was to identify as ‘not’ something, rather than as something, and how often I was called upon to defend my lack of religious affiliation in this community. Most middle-grade authors I’ve met have, at some point, felt like they were on the outside looking in, and this was certainly my experience around religion when I was young.”

–Beth McMullen, MUF member and author of the Mrs. Smith’s Spy School for Girls series,  Lola Benko: Treasure Hunter series, Secret of the Storm series, and others. Find Beth on LinkTree and check out the Writers with Wrinkles podcast, which she co-hosts with MUF member Lisa Schmid.

Tonya Duncan Ellis

“Judy Blume was like that Big Sis who knew everyone’s secrets. I’ve read all of her books for tweens and teens, and they definitely influenced me as I wrote The Snitch and other books in my Sophie Washington series. Beloved characters like Fudge, Margaret, and Sheila the Great stay with me as an adult and played a huge role in making me a reader and book lover!”

– Tonya Duncan Ellis, author of the Sophie Washington series. Learn more about Tonya on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Chris Baron

“Like most kidlit writers, when I hear the name Judy Blume–I smile. I also think of Blubber, and the sharp white curves of the lettering on the cover. I watched that book spin on the fifth-grade book carousel while Mrs. Goldberg taught us math problems. I wanted to read it but was told the subject matter was a little ‘too much’ for me. But one day, I tucked it beneath The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe. I Immediately identified with Linda [aka ‘Blubber,’ the character bullied for her weight] for her demeanor and size, and the truthful and brave way Blume wrote this story. I felt like it had been written for me.

Whenever I read any of Judy Blume’s books, I still feel connected to Blubber. In my deepest writerly dreams, I hope that I can write books like this–with honest, memorable characters whose focused and relational stories are as intimate as a Sunday afternoon with friends, and as universal as the questions they make us ask about ourselves.”

—Chris Baron, author of All of Me, The Magical Imperfect, and The Gray (out 6/13). Visit Chris on his website and follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

Heather Murphy Capps

“I can’t understate the influence Judy Blume had on my life as a young person. My BFF in grades 3-7 was Michelle, and we read Are You There God? It’s Me Margaret together– multiple times. Feeling deeply connected with Margaret’s narrative, we helped each other figure out how to use maxi pads, monitored our (seemingly slow-motion) progression toward puberty, and cheered each other on as we checked off those all-important development milestones. (“We must, we must, we must increase our bust!”) I think Margaret contributed to the foundation of that friendship, which was a fundamentally important part of my life during those years. (Sadly, we lost touch.)

As a writer, Judy Blume’s work serves as mentor text—a running tutorial every time I craft or edit character arc and emotional resonance. Blume’s work is timeless, and her influence on the MG space is one I will always appreciate, honor, and hope to emulate.”

—Heather Murphy Capps, MUF member and debut author of Indigo and Ida. Learn more about Heather on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Sally J. Pla

“I just finished watching the Judy Blume documentary (I loved it, of course). What moved me most was when Judy got choked up and cried, remembering one word in one book: The F word. It appears once, at a critical moment, in Here’s to You, Rachel Robinson. Her editor told her it would cause banning, but he supported whatever decision she made about leaving it in or taking it out. Judy resolved not to take it out. Because censoring herself wouldn’t be true to the story, true to the character, true to her readers or herself. And in recalling this decision, she broke down in tears. Those tears moved me so much. Such a small thing: one word. Such a big, important thing: artistic integrity. This loyalty to her vision, and to her readers’ real lives, will always stay with me.”
–Sally J. Pla, author of The Someday Birds; Stanley Will (Probably) Be Fine, and the forthcoming The Fire, the Water, and Maudie McGee; creator/editor of A Novel Mind. Find  Sally on Linktree.

Mae Respicio

“Judy Blume’s books took me through girlhood with glimpses of love, friendship, and periods… Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret was such a heart book for me that I was specifically asked by my beloved elementary-school librarian, Mr. Reilly, to take a break from checking it out so that other kids could have a chance to read it. And as a middle-grade author who writes about everyday kids in their everyday worlds, her books were one of my very first inspirations.”
—Mae Respicio, author of How to Win a Slime War, Any Day with You, and The House That Lou Built. Learn more about Mae on her website, and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Carol Weston

“So many girls identify with Margaret. Me, I identified with Judy. My first book was Girltalk: All the Stuff Your Sister Never Told You, and Newsweek once called me a “Teen Dear Abby.” But I didn’t want to be Dear Abby, I wanted to be Judy Blume. I wanted to write fiction. I was over 40 when I finally made the leap.Did it help that I heard Judy speak at Marymount College? I think so. Her beloved father, like mine, had died too young, and she choked up talking about her grief. Getting rejections was hard too, but she persevered. She was so real and so radiant. So generous. I was starstruck. Still am.

I love the new movie, of course, and also the new documentary. Judy said she went to a therapist because it was such a responsibility to recieve so much mail from girls. I’ve been an advice columnist at Girls’ Life since 1994 and have sometimes felt buried in letters. I appreciated Judy’s therapist’s advice: “You can’t save everyone.” True. But I love that Judy hasn’t given up on trying. I’m a fan. Forever!”
–Carol Weston, author of Speed of Life, Girltalk, the Ava and Pip series, and more. Learn more about Carol on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Mindy Alyse Weiss

“I remember how much I LOVED Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret, and how relatable yet shocking it was, in the best possible way. Judy really changed kidlit! The novel that made the biggest impact on me as a kid was Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing. Later, while getting my degree in elementary education, I saw the magic of reading it aloud—and of course I read it to my daughters. My oldest was in kindergarten, the youngest in preschool, and they sat, mesmerized, begging me to read another chapter or two before stopping for the night.”

–Mindy Alyse Weiss, Mixed-Up Files contributor, MG author, and host of #PBParty and co-host of #PBFest. Learn more about Mindy on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Faran Fagen

“I enjoyed reading Judy Blume’s book growing up, because I felt like she spoke to me. I actually met her in Key West, at her bookstore. She was so nice, and took a whole bunch of pictures with me and then signed her new book, which I bought for my wife. As far as the documentary, I couldn’t stop watching it, and I plan to watch it again. The most striking takeaway was that no matter how famous she got, or how much her life changed, Judy always took the time to connect with children—her readers—and put them first.”

–Faran Fagen, Mixed-Up Files contributor, teacher, journalist and MG author. Find Faran on Facebook and Twitter.

Kellye Crocker

“Judy Blume has had a tremendous impact on me, both as a lifelong reader and writer. She told the truth to young people. That’s powerful and an incredible gift. Many of novels I read as a kid painted a false, saccharine picture of what life was supposed to look like, so I distinctly remember the shock I felt at reading Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret. Here were girls like me, worrying about periods, boys, fitting in, and existential questions like: ‘Does God exist?’ and ‘Will I ever need a bra?’ (My mom refused to take me shopping for one until a boy in my fifth-grade class drew a picture of me with two dots on my chest. Deeply mortifying! But I’m…fine… Really! Um…I mean, mostly.)

Judy Blume’s books are funny and entertaining, and I devoured them all. But they were so much more. Validating. Informative. It was as if Judy showed us a secret world that other adults pretended didn’t exist—like what happens to boys during puberty. (No one told me!) I still remember someone’s well-loved copy of Forever being passed around the middle-school bus—with certain passages marked, of course. (They didn’t tell me about that, either!)

Judy was one of the first authors to write truly realistic fiction for and about young people, and she paved the way for other authors, and for me. She’s also fought tirelessly against censorship and the folks who believe they have the right to decide what other people’s kids should read. Judy Blume is a national treasure!”

–Kellye Crocker, debut author of My Dad’s Girlfriend and Other Anxieties. Learn more about Kellye on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Wendy McLeod Macknight

“I was in grade six—small for my age and two years away from getting my period—when I heard rumblings about a BOOK. And not just any book, a book written by a female author who KNEW what it meant to be twelve years old and feeling less than. Are You There God, It’s Me, Margaret was being passed from girl to girl like a sacred text, but I couldn’t wait: I used my savings to buy my own copy and devoured it in one sitting. Then promptly reread it. It was the first book I’d ever read that addressed the inner lives of young girls. Judy Blume got us. She KNEW. She UNDERSTOOD. We were no longer alone.

She became my patron saint, her work a beacon of safety and understanding as I navigated the choppy seas of middle school. I’m not sure Judy Blume made me want to be a writer, but I do know this: Judy Blume made me believe things would be okay. And honestly? That was everything.”

—Wendy McLeod MacKnight, author of The Frame-Up, The Copycat, and It’s a Mystery, Pig Face! Follow Wendy on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

Rosanne Parry

“I saw a preview of the movie a few weeks ago, and I was really touched by it. I was happily surprised to see that they kept the early Seventies setting. Even nicer to see all the glory and agony of girl friendships played out so beautifully, without cellphones, cyber bullying, or the continuous drumbeat of gun menace that children face today.”

—Rosanne Parry, Mixed-Up Files contributor and New York Times bestselling author of A Wolf Called Wander, A Whale of the Wild, and the upcoming A Horse Named Sky. Learn more about Rosanne via her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

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The Myth of the Monomyth

By on March 5, 2021   /   Op-Ed, Pop Culture, Writing  
Is there any hope for rehabilitating the Hero's Journey for our 21st Century world?

The Myth of the Monomyth by Greg R. Fishbone asks, "Is there any hope for rehabilitating the Hero's Journey for our 21st Century world?"

An earlier version of this article appeared in the Mythoversal Newsletter.

The Status Quo

I grew up on Joseph Campbell’s monomyth and imprinted on the Hero’s Journey as the definitive storytelling template, but my enthusiasm has been tempered lately by mythologists and folklorists who absolutely loathe this theory.

The monomyth has been called sexist, racist, colonialist, and harmful to the expression and appreciation of world cultures. But why? And is there any hope for rehabilitating the monomyth as a tool for creating and understanding stories in the context of our 21st Century world?

The Catalyst

I was six when I saw the original Star Wars movie, and I was hooked. From then on, I measured all other stories using Star Wars as my personal yardstick.

Acceptance and Action

I began to notice that a wide variety of stories would often start with a Luke Skywalker character called to an adventure by a Ben Kenobi character. The Luke Skywalker character would often undertake a quest to save a Princess Leia Organa character from a Darth Vader character, often with help from a Han Solo character and one or two C3P0 and R2D2 characters. I filled notebooks with every example I could find and engaged friends with my evolving theory that Star Wars could explain the story structure underlying a huge portion of the movies and books we all enjoyed.

Encounter with the Guru

What I’d independently reconstructed was the monomyth theory of Joseph Campbell, building upon the archetypal figures of Carl Jung, as adapted and applied by George Lucas and other filmmakers who sought to emulate his success.

Star Wars beats mapped onto Hero's Journey beats

Trials and Tribulations

Campbell summarized the monomyth as:

“A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.”

Campbell’s theory was that this story template resonated with the human psyche, and had been present in the storytelling of diverse world cultures from humanity’s earliest days.

Friends and Foes

The monomyth theory was presented in The Hero with A Thousand Faces, Campbell’s 1949 book on comparative mythology. In the 1980s, with the success of the monomyth-fueled Star Wars original trilogy, PBS aired a discussion between Campbell and Bill Moyers in a program called The Power of Myth, which brought the monomyth to an even greater level of notoriety. Since then, Christopher Vogler, Blake Snyder, and others have refined the monomyth and extended it to the novel-writing and screenwriting process.

The Edge of the Abyss

At a workshop during the 2021 Arisia conference in January, I joined fellow panelists in a discussion of the more troubling aspects of Campbell’s work. These fell into four main categories:

First, while there are many myths that generally fit into the model proposed by Campbell, there are as many or more that do not, including such foundational stories as the myths of Gilgamesh and Beowulf. Therefore, the monomyth should always be presented with a caveat that it is not as universal as Campbell claimed it to be.

Second, the Heroine’s Journey is not accounted for. The Hero’s Journey has been called a masculine myth, based on traditional stories of male protagonists, generating new stories that best fit male protagonists, and appealing more strongly to male audiences. Other templates are required for more feminine storytelling. These include 45 Master Characters, a writing guide by Victoria Lynn Schmidt based on the theories of Campbellian psychotherapist Maureen Murdoch.

Third, the monomyth has been described as a hammer in search of a nail. Some stories and characters can be mangled into the stations and archetypes of a Hero’s Journey only at the cost of better understanding the essential distinctions that make them unique and special. An overreliance on monomyth-inspired movies has made it harder for audiences and critics to appreciate the stories that don’t fit into that mold, increasing and perpetuating the dominance of the monomyth to the detriment of other forms of storytelling.

And fourth, the adaptation of non-European mythologies to a Eurocentric lens has been seen as a form of cultural appropriation or cultural colonization. The Hero’s Journey is based on those Jungian archetypes closest to the surface in the collective consciousness of Western cultures, while other world cultures may emphasize different archetypes. When we remove a story from the culture that created it and view that story through a Eurocentric lens, or even through a lens that falsely purports to be “universal,” we shortchange the story’s culture of origin.

The Way Through

So is there any hope for rehabilitating the monomyth as a tool for writers in our 21st Century world?

I’d like to think so, but only by first recognizing that the monomyth is just one tool of many in a storyteller’s toolbox. The monomyth can be used to build and analyze story structures, but how much better could it be if we were using the entire toolbox, and looking at our stories through all available lenses?

Return to the Normal World

I still use the Hero’s Journey in my writing, but with an awareness of its problems and limitations. But perhaps the real Hero’s Journey requires throwing away all of our preconceived maps entirely and following each story wherever it leads.

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Interview with Jackson Bostwick, Captain Marvel in the Shazam TV series

By on January 21, 2021   /   Author Interviews, books, For Kids, For Parents, For Teachers, Nonfiction, Pop Culture  

Hello Mixed-Up Filers!

We’re in for a real treat today! Growing up, Saturday morning TV was an event. I woke up early to watch all the cartoons and shows for kids, and one of my favorites was Shazam! Well, I’m excited to say that I recently I got the chance to speak to the Captain Marvel from that series, Jackson Bostwick! So, please help me welcome him to Mixed-Up Files!

Hi Jackson, thanks for joining us today!

JR: To start with, how did you first get into acting?

JB: I never thought I was going to be an actor when I was in college. I was in pre-med. My dad was a neurosurgeon and I was in pre-med at the University of Alabama. My major was Biology, minored in Physics and Chemistry, could’ve triple minored in Psychology and if you’d have told me I was going to be an actor in my life, I’d have said you’re a damn fool.

I did not try anything until I was in the Army. I went through ROTC at Alabama because when I was at college, we were in the middle of the Vietnam War and they had the draft. I knew I was not going to go in as a grunt, so I took ROTC because I wanted to go in as an officer. So I’m, I’m in the army, and after twenty weeks I was at Fort Sam Houston and a medical supply officer. And funny, they give you a choice of what you could be, you know which branch you wanted to go in. Well, I had infantry first, artillery second and medical third because of my medicine. So, they gave me my third. Anyway, I was a medical supply officer and later, I’m stationed in Southern California, in charge of the hospital at Fort Irwin.

Anyway, one day I get a postcard in the mail that says, “We’d like to see you for an interview.” It was The Dating Game. I go in and say, “Which one of you guys sent my name?” They said, “Oh, lieutenant, you’ve got to go.”

I went down, did great in the interview. I had them rolling.  And they made me wear my uniform. I was bachelor number one. I didn’t get it, but backstage, I’m approached by this guy, and he said, “Have you ever thought about getting into acting?” He introduced himself. His name is Phil Benjamin. He was in charge of casting at Universal. And I said, “I ain’t never done a thing in my life.” I had that southern accent. He said, “Well, why don’t you see about getting some training and then come look me up?” So, I get back to Fort Irwin, I call my dad, I said, “Dad, this guy came back, da da da da. Do you think I ought to give it a shot?” He said, “Well, as long as you’re continuing your schooling, okay, go ahead.”

I went to USC to study acting and was one of the original members of their MFA program.

JR: That’s amazing! I read that you were a big reader of the Captain Marvel comics as a kid. What was it that drew you to Captain Marvel as opposed to some of the more famous heroes like Superman and Batman?

JB: You have a little kid that can say a magic word and he can take care of business, becomes a superhero. Plus, the way they were drawn was fun, and had all these great villains. Mr. Mind, King Kull, Captain Nazi and of course, Silvana.

 

All of this was fun to read. That’s why it outsold Superman. That’s why DC sued them.  It reminded me of the shows I used to like, The Lone Ranger, Tarzan, and The Shadow.

JR: I read that later you actually became friends with Clayton Moore?

JB: We were very good friends. In fact Clay even approached me at one time when he was having problems with this the mask thing. And I kept encouraging him, because I had the same problem when Filmation fired me. I said, just let the fans do the talking. Don’t worry about it. Just get Gucci glasses and go out. He was constantly calling me. He wanted me to play him in his life story. Then, they made a Lone Ranger remake in 1981, but they got Klinton Spilsbury instead, and  dubbed the entire movie, Stacey Keach’s brother, James Keach was the voice of the lone ranger because Klinton’s voice was too high.

Clay also told me the story about the time that he stopped on the side of the road to help somebody. He’d just come from an appearance and he still had the costume on. This is the same story that Jay Thomas told on David Letterman.

(JR: If you’ve never seen the Jay Thomas/Lone Ranger story on Letterman, go YouTube it immediately after reading this. VERY funny)

JR: How did you first get involved with the show Shazam?

JB: Well, again, you just hang in there. I just graduated from USC, I was not feeling real good. I just broke up with a girl, and I called my friend out at Disney Studios, Bill, and I said, “Man, I need to get an agent or something like that.” He said, well, what about Jack? And I said, “Well, I went out there about, I dunno, three or four, five months ago and dropped off pictures and never heard from him.” He said, “Let me give him a call.” Thirty minutes later, I get a call from the head of casting at Disney. A couple of weeks later, I get a call from them, saying they want me to go out to this place in the Valley, Filmation studios. And it’s for a Captain Marvel cereal. So I’m thinking this is like Captain Crunch or something. It’s a cereal, you know? So, I dress in my normal cattle call uniform, t-shirt, jeans and cowboy boots, and I head on out there.

I drive along, I’d never been to the Filmation Studios, wherever it was, and I said, “Well, here’s the address,” and I drove right up and parked in front. You never have that happen on an interview, on these cattle calls. You’re lucky if you can find one two blocks away because everybody’s there. I go inside, there’s nobody there. I sit down, and a guy comes out and introduces himself. He’s a producer. You never meet the producer on interviews. It’s usually a casting person and this is before they start filming you. They later start putting you on tape and stuff. This is where you just go in and do a cold reading and they talk to you.

So, I go inside and during the conversation, and as I’m talking with him, I’m realizing this is Captain Marvel, the comic books my mom threw out when I was in college. I had them all. Really, a fortune.

JR: Unbelievable

JB: Anyway, I said, “Listen, I will bust my butt to make this a hit. It was my favorite.” I was in great shape back then, Jonathan. I was 6’3, weighed 217, I could hack squat with 600 pounds. Judo, karate, all of it. I studied with Dan Inosanto, who was Bruce Lee’s best friend, and also Chuck Norris.

JR: WOW!

JB: Later, he told me,  “Jackson, did you notice the guy sitting in Farmer John’s in the foyer as you walked by? Did you notice him?” I said, “No, not really. I did, but I didn’t.” He said, “As you went by, the guy said, ‘Wow, there goes Captain Marvel. You know who that was?” I said, “No.”

He said, “That was Mark Harmon.” He had just graduated from UCLA, star quarterback. He was in the final four for Captain Marvel. We’d been looking for four months for our Captain Marvel. First it was an athlete, then it was athlete that was an actor. We were finally back to actors that were athletes. He said, “When I heard that, I knew you were in. I already knew you were in, but when I heard that, that cinched it.” That’s how I got it.

JR: That’s such a great story! You had already been in several other productions prior to the show, but now you were one of the leads. How did that feel? Were you nervous?

JB: No. Don’t forget I had a Master’s degree from USC. They had me doing Shakespeare, Chaucer, I mean Chekhov and Shaw and all of those unbelievable plays back there.

JR: The show had some differences with the comic, was that addressed at all?

JB: Jonathan, I was on them so much about this stuff. They’d ask, “Jackson, is there a clever thing that Captain Marvel can say?” I said, “What’s wrong with Holy Moley?” He said, “That’d be perfect.” I made sure the costume was done perfectly, and it was handmade from the shoes up. Those were handmade leather boots that fit me. The cape was pure silk. Heavy as lead.

I also said, “You just don’t see enough of Captain Marvel. He doesn’t have to just come in and clean up all the time, you can have him come in at the first of the show. The other thing is, you need to have the hero come back and talk with the kids, like The Lone Ranger.  He said, “Well, they don’t want to do it. They don’t want to give up 60 seconds of commercial time.” Then, the fan mail was unbelievable and it was about a month after the screening, of the first show in ’74, and he comes back and says, “Well, they’ve decided to go ahead and put tags in.”

I did 15 shows the first year. We went out and we shot all 15 of those tags in one day-

JR: I read that you did all your own stunts. Do you remember any in particular that worried you?

JB: They all worried me. (Laughs) I think the most dangerous one that I can think of was when I drill into the ground for water and they had me hanging by my heels or by my feet on a 500 pound piano wire and they hauled me up 30 feet in the air and all I’m looking at is this hole in the ground with my safety man down there. What is he going to do? I’m going to go down there and just smash. I think the most dangerous one was when I’m on top of the motor home having to stop it because it’s like riding on a bowl of Jell-O. The springs in those things were very lackadaisical, they’re not stiff at all and I didn’t have anything to attach me up there. They put a strap along my feet. Anyway, that was the most dangerous thing.

 

JR: Oh, wow

JB: The only one I didn’t do was wrestle with the lion, because I knew no matter how they were raised, an animal was still wild. Look what happened to Siegfried and Roy. All this tiger was trying to do is do what he does to his cubs, pick him up by the scruff of the neck and haul him away and that’s what he did but didn’t realize that he was hurting him. He wasn’t trying to kill him or anything. He was trying to move him out of harm’s way.

JR: Did DC Comics have any involvement with the show?

JB: Zero. Well, okay, the involvement is the PC-ing of it. We couldn’t throw any punches, we couldn’t put any kids in danger. We couldn’t do anything like this. We only had a $70,000 show budget. This was way before all this CGI stuff and everything.

We were flying by the seat of our pants to get this thing done right and to make it look halfway good. I’m having to sell these stunts like stopping a car and all this stuff. Had to make it look like it was so hard to sell it because that was all we had. If we just did it so easily, it wouldn’t mean anything to the kids. We were restricted by this PhD from UCLA who was a psychologist who would have to approve every stupid little thing that we did.

JR: During the second season, you were replaced, and another actor took over the role. Can you tell us about that?

JB: I was injured doing the show. That year, everything was just going crazy, and things just weren’t going real smooth. I even had a conversation with Lou Schweimer and Norm Prescott, the producers. Prescott was just a bad egg.

I injured myself doing a takeoff. They made me do it twice. I never did it twice. I could’ve flown that thing in, it was so easy, had it down. I did it perfect the first one. Second one, this new director, never heard of him, came up and they called me out 7:30 in the morning in the valley to do one takeoff. I wasn’t even doing anything else in the day. Bob, the regular director,  would never have done that. He would’ve had me up at least just before lunch or something. Never at the first thing, 7:30 in the morning. Anyway, what happened was, he did not check the stunt boxes and they lost their integrity after the first takeoff and landing. the corner, caught my eye on the corner of the boxes and of course, anytime you stiffen cardboard up, it’s as strong as wood, and I got caught and it tore at my eye. So, there’s no way I could film the next day anyway.

The nurse gave me an ice pack, which they later had her change her story, and she said, “No, there’s nothing wrong here.” When I didn’t show up the next day to get it checked out, they fired me. In the arbitration that we had, I showed pictures, because when it happened, I said, “Oh, we got to get a shot of this. Captain Marvel with a mouse under his eye.” I had this big ice pack on, so they take a close up of me on my own camera. So, here I am on film, with a big smile and I got this huge black and blue under my eye because it busted a blood vessel.

Well, as soon as we showed that in the arbitration, they had to pay me for all the shows they didn’t use me on plus residuals.

JR: That is great! Good for you. 

JB: They killed that show. John Davey, God love him, he’s no more Captain Marvel than I am Wonder Woman.

JR: Even watching back then, I was like, “Hey, what’s going on?” Even when I was a kid, I was like, “Why’d they change?”

JB: Prescott said the kids will never know the difference. The kids are the first ones that’ll know the difference. Anyway, it worked out for me, but it killed the show.

JR: Did you watch the show at all after you left?

JB: Oh no. No, I didn’t. Didn’t bother with it. I’ve never seen an episode with him.

JR: I don’t blame you. Now, I read that you weren’t a huge fan of the movie. Why not?

JB: Yeah, I have no use to see that movie. All I got to do is see the trailer. They took an absolutely iconic character and made a buffoon out of him. That guy is a comedian.

JR: If you come across the show now at all, your old episodes, do you sit down and watch them?

JB: On Blu-ray. They’ve got them out on Blu-ray.

JR: Now going back to the Shazam movie, has anyone approached you at all about appearing in it, the sequel at all?

JB: No. Not at all. They wanted me to be in this alternate universe one.

JR: Oh, did they? The Crisis on Infinite Earths?

JB: Yeah. Oh yeah, they wanted me to wear the costume. I said, “You guys drunk? Do you know how old I am? I’m not going to put it on.” Then I asked, “What are you going to call me?” Am I going to be known as Captain Marvel? They said, “Oh, we don’t know yet.” They couldn’t tell me. First of all, DC comes up with this sad excuse because of merchandising and stuff. They don’t want to have confusion, because they let Marvel take the name Captain Marvel, so that’s why DC changed it to Shazam. They can use Captain Marvel, they can’t just use it in the title, but they can use it in the text and yet they still avoided it.

JR: That’s a shame.

JB: Absolutely.

JR: You worked for Disney several times in the 70’s and early 80’s, including the cult classic Tron. What was it like working for Disney in general, and your memories of Tron in particular?

JB: I was involved with 13 films out of Disney. Cat from Outer Space, Apple Dumpling Gang, Devil and Max Devlin, Secret of the Lost Valley, a bunch of it. This was back when it was a family studio. This was back when the husband of the Disney heir was head of the studio and it was a family. If you worked in one movie at Disney, you would work in the others. They would use you over and over. It was a family studio, just a pleasure to work with and Bill Shepherd, I was good friends with Bill. It was just amazing to be able to work out there. I worked on Tron and I’m the head guard, but I even have a hard time spotting where I am. The only way I can do it is when I’m pushing Jeff around or I’m with Stark all the time, the head bad guy.

 

JR: How often do you do comic cons?

JB: Well, I was doing quite a few of them. That’s bringing up what we’re going to do in the future. A friend of mine is building, it’s almost complete, a Big Red Cheese-Mobile from Shazam, and you have to see this thing. I mean, they took my old ’73 Imperial that I still had, 440 Magnum engine in it and they converted it into this thing. It’s a showstopper. We’re going to go to car shows and we’re going to go to Comic-Cons and stuff like this now with that there to be able to get a picture in that. I mean, people will line up to get a picture with this thing. It’s spectacular.

JR: How often do fans reach out to you? 

JB: I’ve got, jeez, I don’t know how many thousands of fans, friends I have on there. It’s amazing. They all reach out and say Happy Birthday, or Merry Christmas.

JR: Since we’re a site devoted to children’s books, what was your favorite childhood book?

JB: I loved Jack London. I love To Build a Fire, one of his short stories. I love Ambrose Bierce, The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge. Those kind of stories. I was a lot into Poe, The Tell Tale Heart and those kind of stories. The Cask of Amontillado, all these things I I used to read. I was a big fan of the books like Ivanhoe or Robin Hood and anything that had adventure in it. Jack London was my favorite author.

JR: With many people loving Shazam, what was your favorite show or movie growing up?

JB:  Oh, The Lone Ranger was mine.

JR: I read that you were doing a memoir of your time with Shazam. What’s the status with that?

I just finished with the third draft. I’m going back now and going through and editing, rehashing. It’s called Myth, Magic, and the Mortal. The myth of course is the Captain Marvel thing, the magic is to be able to change to it and then the mortal is me playing the part.

Got plenty of pictures. It’s a great read. It really is a good read. I think people will really enjoy it, so I’m trying my best to get it organized now into chapters where I have the early part of my life, which I briefly go through to set people up, and then you got into acting and to USC and then to get me into the show. I go through every episode and explain how I did every stunt in every episode.

JR: I can’t wait to read it! What else are you working on now?

JB: Finishing up my book, and also a movie that I did called Bloody Mary Lite. It’s a fun little thing. You can look up the trailer on YouTube.

JR: How can people follow you on social media?

www.JacksonBostwick.com

JR: Mr. Bostwick, I thank you again for joining us today. It was a real pleasure to speak to you! 

 

Well, Mixed-Up Filers, that’s it for now. Hope you enjoyed reading all about Captain Marvel! Until next time . . .

Jonathan

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